There has been a lot of discussion on Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles and how it may overwrite episode 85. From my own experience, I can see it doesn't replace scenes or conflicts with episode 85 much at all. Yeah, there's Scott's alpha and the Regis' speech got shorten. Other than that, most fans' complaints have been from confusion.
BlaqChaos has attempted to put those doubts to rest by combining part of Shadow Chronicles with the footage of episode 85 of Robotech the series. This shows how Shadow Chronicles indeed adds to episode 85 without overwriting much of anything.
Be warn of major spoilers if you have not watched Shadow Chronicles yet!
Check it out for yourself: http://www.angelfire.com/planet/d-o-l/tsc/
Thanks Rhade for hosting it!
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23 comments:
Again with the Harmony Gold hugging?--Please, The Masters, give it a rest. Before I reply to this post, let me tell you that, if you insist upon claiming to fill the shoes of Darkwater, you've gotta reflect the majority of longtime fans like he did. If not (and you want to consistently defend Shadow Chronicles' problems) then that's fine...but don't claim to be something that you're not.
[end "Prelude To The End Of The Shadow Chronicles"]
> "I can see it doesn't replace
> scenes or conflicts with episode
> 85 much at all...Other than that,
> most fans' complaints have been
> from confusion."
It might not REPLACE scenes, but it sure does BASTARDIZE them. Scott goes into the hive...and magically, Lancer, Rand, Rook, Lunk, and Annie AREN'T THERE?! (It's laughable that you defend this.) Sure, it could be described as "good so that it doesn't confuse new fans," but on the same note, Harmony Gold could have just omitted it altogether, and described it through single-frame flashbacks with dialogue voiceovers or matter-of-fact interrogation. If I was a new fan, what the hell would this scene mean to me, anyway?
The simple truth is that Harmony Gold tried (as they did throughout the whole movie) to please both new fans and old...and failed on both counts.--New fans don't know what's going-on and want to see more of the (comparatively) charismatic Jack Baker knock-off-of-a-character named Marcus, and old fans get angry at the omission of four of the most important characters in the Robotech universe. Someone in Harmony Gold said it would be alright; that someone was wrong.
What BlaqChaos has done is wasted his time in a futile attempt to make Harmony Gold's broken project look better than it actually is. For this effort I applaud him but at the same time heave my chest in disgust at the people who continue to do this sort of Robotech-related work for free that Harmony Gold should have been able to do themselves. It is a disgusting display of fanboyism to convince oneself that the trash pile known as The Shadow Chronicles is in some way worthy of the Robotech name, but if you or anyone else wants to do that, fine, no skin off of my dried protoculture leaves, but geez, man, have the balls to say exactly what the actions display:
"Shadow Chronicles did not accurately convey a connection to the original Robotech series and thus, must be re-worked before being considered to be satisfactory."
Yours in the protoculture,
Khyron_Prime
Praise Haydon!
Khyron_Prime
Before you go blast The Masters, go watch the piece BlaqChaos put together. You will find that your flatly wrong. Then again, by how quickly you posted rather then taking the tie to watch, I have to wonder if your just afraid to be proven wrong. If that's the case, then don't jump on The Masters, because it's not his fault you look like a fool.
"Flatly wrong" at what?--You're the one who looks like a fool, using a statement which idiotically attempts to discount all of the points made in my message. If you want to defend something against my attack, then defend your precious HG-made junk against the points I made:
1) No The Next Generation characters.
"It might not REPLACE scenes, but it sure does BASTARDIZE them. Scott goes into the hive...and magically, Lancer, Rand, Rook, Lunk, and Annie AREN'T THERE?!"
2) Harmony Gold failed by cutting-out stuff to please new fans yet executed the move selectively and poorly, thus angering old fans.
"New fans don't know what's going-on...and old fans get angry at the omission of four of the most important characters in the Robotech universe."
3) Harmony Gold had done a better job, productions like this would have been unnecessary to please fans.
"For this effort I applaud him but at the same time heave my chest in disgust at the people who continue to do this sort of Robotech-related work for free that Harmony Gold should have been able to do themselves."
--Those are the points I raised, embellished in the beauty of the American-born style of the English language for maximum enjoyability. Discount those points...or shut up and accept them as near-unquestionable truth.
Yours in the protoculture,
Khyron_Prime
Praise Haydon!
You may debate and rant about Robotech, Harmony Gold, and whatever related here. Do NOT personally include me or other individuals in your flame war.
We are Robotech fans, first of all. We all have our own opinions for Robotech as a whole. You are free to express your own opinion. However, attacking each other directly is not a part of the topic. It does not discuss what's on hand.
So, keep it on the real topic. Robotech and Harmony Gold.
Thank You
While I'm at it... I have never ever said that I am Darkwater or am like Darkwater. What I stated to be was to fullfil the void he left in reporting the news. If I have ever said anything it would be this:
I am here to help reunite the fandom through a central source of news of both official and fan-based. In no way am I here to continue the old flames against or for Harmony Gold. I try to keep my opinions on my blog short and to myself. I attempt to always state they are my own. In no way have I promoted or dissed Harmony Gold as an entity.
If you missed something...I'm letting you flame and say what you want about these topics. I attempt to keep the spirit the fandom demands, and that's freedom of speech. If you want your opinion heard, then keep me out of it.
Thanks again.
Khyron_Prime
What makes you look foolish is your flames against the Masters on his blog for seeing what your afraid to even go look at. You are flatly wrong in every ONE of the complaints you made above. Nothing was bastardized, changed, cut out, etc.
However, your failure to understand the chronology, or to go look at the evidence that proves you wrong, is your failure and your choice. It is not now, nor has it ever been The Masters fault. It also does not in any way permit you the right to flame him for doing his best to support the fandom. If you don't like his blog, go make your own. Otherwise, drop the attacks on him. You are WAY the hell out of line and you owe him an apology. In short, stop the attacks or go the hell away. Either way, grow up!
> What makes you look foolish is your
> flames against the Masters on his
> blog for seeing what your afraid to
> even go look at.
Now you're flaming, sir. How do you know whether or not I watched that well-meaning but misguided attempt to rectify the validity of The Shadow Chronicles?
I watched the video before posting, big shot. It didn't change any one of the obvious points I have stated. In fact, all it did was extend the agony that is "The Shadow Chronicles."
> You are flatly wrong in every ONE
> of the complaints you made above.
> Nothing was bastardized, changed,
> cut out, etc.
Its funny how you like to argue against me, yet can't muster the text-based reasoning to actually point-out why they're wrong. I'm not sure if you lost count already, but this is the second time you've done this. Maybe the third time's a charm?
Let me make this clear: I don't hold vendettas against anyone. Past actions may give reasonable precedent to predict future actions, but I'm not here fighting Rhade or his foolish attempts to rebut arguements; I'm here to myself rebut the arguement that, in some way, The Shadow Chronicles is any better than its detractors say.
The Shadow Chronicles was an effort--I'll give them that; but it was a poor effort. What is even more staggering is how the "devoted" fans actually pour their blood and soul into creating stuff like this video so that they can live-on without having to gut it up and admit that, yeah, The Shadow Chronicles sucked.
Yours in the protoculture,
Khyron_Prime
Praise Haydon!
You know, in my experience, anyone who claims to speak for "the majority of" anyone…usually doesn't.
In fact, it's usually a sure sign of an insecure person seeking a shortcut to add weight to his rhetoric—which, when you come right down to it, is only his opinion anyway.
If you're going to express an opinion, speak for yourself. Don't claim to represent other people who never appointed you as their representative.
Attempt to put those doubts to rest failed, in my opinion.
Either way damage is done, why beat a dead horse. RTTSC served it purpose and apparently will get us more Robotech. I personally can only hope that if Funimation is putting financial backing in any new ones they will also relieve unqualified individuals from production positions they know nothing about. Hearing things like “it was a learning experience” says to me find others who have what is needed to get the product out in time, and not go over the budget for obvious oversights and not knowing anything about a real production pipeline.
Khyrron_Prime
>Its funny how you like to argue >against me, yet can't muster the >text-based reasoning to actually >point-out why they're wrong.
Now your really pushing it. I have pointed out why their wrong. With visuals and all. But if you want me to point it oit here too...fine...
>1) No The Next Generation >characters."It might not REPLACE >scenes, but it sure does >BASTARDIZE them. Scott goes into >the hive...and magically, Lancer, >Rand, Rook, Lunk, and Annie AREN'T >THERE?!"
Wrong. That's two different points in time. It would be obvious if you watched the video I am streaming, but since you wont watch it, I have to explain it. Scott goes out to fight Corg. Gets shot down. Ariel leaves to go find Scott. Lunk, Annie, Rand, and Rook leave the hive. Lancer and Sera go off to fight the REF troops. Ariel returns into the hive and continues her conversation with her mother ALONE! Nothing magical there. Nothing altered or bastardized etc. So, your wrong here. Go watch the whole video I put up and you will SEE your wrong. Otherwise, stop whining about this one.
>"New fans don't know what's
>going-on...and old fans get angry >at the omission of four of the >most important characters in the >Robotech universe."
Really? Tell that to all the new fans at MechaCon that hadn't heard of Robotech, yet understood everything in TSC perfectly. As to omissions, there are none. Again, you would see that if you went and watched the video I posted.
>"For this effort I applaud him but >at the same time heave my chest in >disgust at the people who continue >to do this sort of >Robotech-related work for free >that Harmony Gold should have been >able to do themselves."
Harmony Gold could have done everything perfectly and people would still find reasons to complaint and people would still find ways to prove their complaints invalid. So, the fact is you can blame the video on HG, but it's really caused by a fight between people who are LOOKING for things to complain about and those of us who want all you "naysayers" to shut the hell up and accept that your wrong!
All this comes down to one thing....YOU screwed up the tie line in your head. There is now a 1 hour video that shows the correct time line, but you want so badly to be right, that you wont even go watch it. You just want to sit here and whine like a child. So, this comes back to my earlier statement of GROW THE HELL UP OR SHUT UP!
Now, with all that aside...like TSC or not....support TSC or not...your personal attack on The Master was grossly out of line, you stillowe him an apology, and your acting like a jackass. If ya don't like The Master's blog, DON'T READ IT! GO MAKE YOUR OWN DAMNED BLOG! Either way I don't care. However, attack one of my friends, without cause, and you betcha I care!
Oh, and congratulations, The Masters. Getting this kind of flame war in your blog comments means you really have stepped into Darkwater's shoes. :)
I'd like to just throw my hands-up and say "I give up," because it seems that no matter what I say, Rhade, you're gonna try to come-back with some deluded vision of Robotech. Fortunately for the viewers of this blog, I'd rather continue this discussion despite the overwhelming conservativism of the people who enjoy coming here.
> attack one of my friends, without
> cause, and you betcha I care!
You're funny, y'know?--The only thing I ever said directly to The Masters in these threads was that he's a Harmony Gold hugger. Is that a horrible insult?--Damn right, it is! I'm glad you were offended by it, as well. :)
> Again, you would see that if you
> went and watched the video I
> posted.
Why are you so stupid? I already posted in a previous message that I watched your precious video.
> All this comes down to one
> thing....YOU screwed up the tie
> line in your head.
Would that be the one where Rick's about to get married and Max helps him with his bowtie, it falls limp, and he says "Oh, well. Maybe you'll start a trend..."?
> but you want so badly to be
> right, that you wont even go
> watch it.
I just wanted to quote that to laugh at how desperate (and redundant!) it sounds.
> ...Ariel returns into the hive
> and continues her conversation
> with her mother ALONE! Nothing
> magical there. Nothing altered or
> bastardized etc.
Except for the fact that, in the original version, Scott heads for the hive core only to be blinded by the light of the departing Regis, and never gets the chance to meet with Ariel again. I noticed that BlaqChaos' video conveniently changes from footage of The New Generation (where Lancer and Sera run-into Scott while escaping the hive) to footage of The Shadow Chronicles at one of the most precise examples of how these scenes conflict with each other.
You don't have to take my word for it; go back to your Robotech DVDs and watch it. Scott passes Sera and Lancer (while they escape), is about to head-into the final path to the Hive Center, and is blinded. He covers his eyes, and the camera pans-out to see the Regis leaving the Earth.
Listen, guys: I'm not here to start a fight. If you want to support one-sided creations like this, then that's your business. But if you don't even feel bad about this self-delusion (or worse, are not even aware), then don't attack me for trying to help.
Yours in the protoculture,
Khyron_Prime
Praise Haydon!
PS- A "flame war"? Geez. Have you ever even been in a true-to-definition flame war?--This is nothing...
Hey, I think Khyron_Prime has a valid point, rooted in evidence. Can't anyone take a hit at him without missing? I am not a "hard core" fan, I am also realitively new to the fandom (and to posting in a forum). regardless of my n00b-ness I can, however, listen to points made and follow a convincing argument. If any point Khyron_Prime made was not backed up with any kind of evidence I could just sit on the sidlines and watch him get textually creamed,if this was the case, he would deserve it. (notice the if) Unfourtunatly for thoes that have been attempting a rebuttle, this is not the case and all of Khyron's points are clear and concise with the proof to back it up wether anyone likes it or not. I haven't watched the video, I have watched RTTSC, I'm not trying to say that RTTSC still sucks or not, I have only one simple statement:
Please, for the sake of your own credibility, honour, or whatever integirty you belive you have, back up your arguments with proof. It is disgusting to see statments flung around like an argument. I would like to hope we are mature enough to not mindlessly insult others without the evidence to show that the other party is wrong in their accusation.
Firstly, the statement:
>You are flatly wrong in every ONE
>of the complaints you made above.
>Nothing was bastardized, changed,
>cut out, etc.
... it continues into... nothing? How is he wrong? What are the points he made? How were the things in question not bastardized, changed, cut out, ect.? This is a textual medium, thus, ideas must be expressed textually, if there was supposed to be an argument here.
Secondly:
>You know, in my experience, anyone
>who claims to speak for "the
>majority of" anyone…usually doesn't.
From what I've read in the post this "the majority of" snippet is taken from (the very first post where this is used in a sentence referring to someone named DarkWater), Khyron was never claiming himself to speak for anyone. If one were to read the post in the entirety, and not be quoting random parts of it, that, in other context skews words, one would see that Khyron was not in reference to himself as this post seemed to imply. Also, an attacking post such as the one in which the quote was contained begs to question the insecurity of the author, I feel. Do Khyron's words really verbally castrate so many that an attack at ones personal integrity is the only way to defend oneself? How laughable! My GOD, this post almost says that Khyron wins the argument it is so devoid of point.
Damn. I pray there are people out there who are INTELLIGENT after reading some of these pathetic "arguments." Come on people. Not only do these statements against Khyron's points make you all look like five-year-olds but begs to question the over-all intelligence of all the fandom. I am disgusted by these actions against Khyron. If you don't like what he said BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENT! You disgrace not only yourselves, the fandom, but all of Robotech when you can't even pick up your balls and make a cohesive argument. If you love the direction the series is currently heading so much, prove it!
Standing for truth,
Dark Red Phantom X
Dark Red Phantom X
Again, I did back up what I said....with visuals. Khyron Prime has no valid point what so ever. In fact, the only point he made that even REMOTEDLY seemed valid was his one about Scott being bathed in teh white light of the Regis leaving. Save, that he obviously did NOT watch the posted video because that is also coverred in the video. BlaqChaos did not edit it out or hide it by cutting away to the REF fleet. It's still there. Yes BlaqChaos cut to the REF fleet to show their perpective at the same instant and came back to that very instant from Scott's POV too. Khyron prime is trying to make it look like the video was alterred to suite a PoV and in fact, it was not. Every second of footage is uncut from BOTH TSC and NG. It's just intermixed following a logical time line showing both the REF PoV and the Earth PoV simultaneously.
Again, there has not been one single valid point made. However, he has insulted The Master and that he owes the Master and apology for. Contrary to KP's post, he did not just call The Master an HG Hugger. He did call him that and also belittled his work. Neither was warrented in anyway. If KP doesn't like this blog, he can go somewhere else or make his own. It's that simple. He does NOT have the right to come insult other people's work and be nasty to them for trying their best. That's the way children behave.
Well bid!
Even though I personally believe that the omission of much of the drama of The Next Generation's conclusion is unacceptable, I will concede that, given a few concessions, The Shadow Chronicles doesn't utterly destroy this ending. (I don't believe that I ever explicitly said it did, either.)
Given the circumstances, of course, I hope you can understand the fervor of my comments being directly connected to my wishes for Robotech to follow the absolutely best path possible. Unless Harmony Gold is reminded that they DO have shortcomings, their mistakes will be repeated; unless the fans are reminded of these mistakes, Harmony Gold will likely not hear enough nay-saying to change their ways.
That was the point all along. I wish I would have expressed it better.
Yours in the protoculture,
Khyron_Prime
Praise Haydon!
regarding the robotech timeline to be honest most robotech fans have grown up and they really do not care about contunity in robotech all they want is just good robotech regardless of contunity issue. It simply has to be good. Khyron the contuinity issues in robotech is a mess. Why waste effort trying to resolve the contuinty issues in robotech. Do not waste your time with stupid contuinty issuses.
Just simply enjoy robotech
Masters how many DVDs of robotech shadow chroniclessold ?
Thanks for explaining yourself Khyron. We welcome your passion to keep Harmony Gold on the ball. I was like that at one time.
We have now ENDED this long debate. No one should comment about it anymore.
I don't know how many DVDs Shadow Chronicles sold, but it was enough for a sequel.
Anybody please how many DVDs Shadow Chronicles sold, knowing the number of robotech shadow chronicles DVD sold is helpful to know about the state of the robotech franchise.
We want figures sold.
"Again with the Harmony Gold hugging?--Please, The Masters, give it a rest. Before I reply to this post, let me tell you that, if you insist upon claiming to fill the shoes of Darkwater, you've gotta reflect the majority of longtime fans like he did."
The Master's isn't kissing ass with harmony gold, Anonymous, by posting a video like this. It's simply him presenting robotech related info, which is what he set out to do with this blog in the first place. Also, he is doing different things here than darkwater, as noted in an earlier post:
"This blog will cover many of the things Darkwater did and more. If it's Robotech news of any kind, we'll try to post it. Everything from merchandise announcements to fandom happenings. We want to go a step beyond that and help support the Robotech community through promotion and updates on Robotech fan projects and community events."
The Masters doesn't need to reflect this so-called "majority" of fans, that you talk about, Anonymous, at all in his blog. He does whatever the hell he wants to, just like Darkwater did.
You don't like what you see here, or how its being presented, then go make your own blog and you can rant and foam at the mouth over Harmony Gold to your heart's content.
> You don't like what you see here,
> or how its being presented, then go
> make your own blog and you can rant
> and foam at the mouth over Harmony
> Gold to your heart's content.
Maybe it's my browser acting-up, but the link I click upon says "Publish Your Comment" and not "Publish Your Compliment."--I'll have to write Mozilla and let 'em know that something in their programming doesn't gel with Blogger, but rather, the idea that the Internet is an open forum.
Yours in the protoculture,
Khyron_Prime
Praise Haydon!
(Umm...when have I ever posted anonymously, you weirdo?)
Hey guys darkwater is back now masters you can take a break.
"Hey guys darkwater is back now masters you can take a break."
Should I take that as a positive comment or that I just suck? :/
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